OPMV Chat Group

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: OPMV Chat Group

Last night (Sunday 4) we held our first OPMV chat session which is aimed at organising some kind of event in the very near future. We had 21 interested people at one stage (thanks everybody) and we've decided that every sunday Night at 9PM we'll meet for a (workgroup) formal type chat with an informal OPMV chat session 9pm Wednesday nights.

I'll post a cutdown transcript here for now, I'll maybe create PDF documents from future sessions.
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Shane says to (19:59):
first off thankyou to everybody here, it's a good feeling that there is
growing interest in OPMV, but it's a shame that it's here to stay. With a
bit of luck we'll get more people in here if we can make this a regular
thing.
tiger says to (20:01):
I was shocked by the number of people with first hand experience of OPMV as per the poll. Much more prevalent than I realised
Shane says to (20:01):
yes Mike, and they are only the ones who admit it
Simondo says to (20:02):
Me to. Made me realise how important this forum is
Shane says to (20:02):
i think there are lots of people in denial
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:02):
alot of people in denial or hiding
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:02):
dont want to out themselves
Shane says to (20:02):
Thanks have to go to Simon for his recent interest/motivation, we hope to
get a regular chat session happening with the aim to get some sort of
conference together for education and information regarding OPMV.
tiger says to (20:03):
Sounds like a top idea
Shane says to (20:03):
and it all starts here!
NoOne says to (20:03):
trouble is most people dont want to hear about it and still have the ' it
will never happen to me' attitude
dyingsun says to (20:04):
So many people would be afraid to admit to having OPMV in their collections,
they wouldnt want to be treated like lepers.
it's the ones that don't realise they have it that are the problem..
NoOne says to (20:05):
i also think that some people who have admitted to having it cant put in the
hard yards and not sell, as we have seen with a few people
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:06):
people who havent outed themselves and still proceed to sell snakes lizards
turts you name it as healthy animals when they know they have opmv or
suspect they have opmv is wrong
Simondo says to (20:06):
YES
Simondo says to (20:06):
Why are we all here???
Fangz says (20:06):
to the poeple I dont know in here........what procedures do you guys have in
place to limit the chances of exposure to opmv?
Shane says to (20:07):
well, the aim is to orgainise some kind of event specificaly to deal with
opmv
jayson says to (20:08):
has there been any kind of approach to any vets or other disease experts to come into chat
_Daniel_ says to (20:08):
back tot he question asked by fangz, i would also like to hear some answers, i would also like to know if anyone know of any proven cases in the NT
Davo says to (20:09):
comfirmed cases with people trading still should be named as
there is a few about.confirming would be the hard part
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:09):
exactly dave
Shane says to (20:09):
i know that at least one has been spoken to about opmv and is interested
jayson says to (20:09):
thats a start
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:09):
expecially without results from tests that never even took place
tiger says to (20:09):
I guess we need to convince these guys that a conference is a good idea
Fangz says (20:09):
Im sure we could organise a vet or two to give some of their time
jayson says to (20:09):
its so hard to out someone without proof Dave as you leave yourself liable
Shane says to (20:09):
maybe we should just treat tonight as an open opmv discussion and leave
conference talk to next time?
butternuts says to (20:10):
anyone know what the yanks have put in place if anything
Simondo says to (20:10):
INDEED SHANE
Fangz says (20:10):
has anyone got any specific questions they would like answers to?
Davo says to (20:10):
do vets have a confidence thing where as they are'nt allowed to blab
Simondo says to (20:10):
First we have to sort out what we are trying to achieve
Simondo says to (20:11):
then we have to work out how to do it
Shane says to (20:11):
i'd say they do Dave
_Daniel_ says to (20:11):
i alreayd said it up there, i would like to knwo if anyone knows of cases in
the NT
jayson says to (20:11):
i think the problem we face is that the Herp community doesnt get much
exsposure unless its bad
jayson says to (20:11):
we need the right people on our side to help change this
NoOne says to (20:11):
US strains of opmv seem to be much more agressive than ours and wipe out large collections quickly
Simondo says to (20:11):
Yes we do
Fangz says (20:12):
none that I have heard of Daniel however I have no doubts whatsover that its in EVERY state with the exception of maybe Tas
Simondo says to (20:12):
But first, what are we trying to do Jays
dyingsun says to (20:12):
One problem with this disease is that the info out there is sketchy at best.
It's a pity it isn't a little more centralised.
Shane says to (20:12):
that would suggest that there are many strains of opmv Steve, we know ARP had more than one back in 2002/03
dpeica says to (20:12):
it's safer to assume it's everywhere..
butternuts says to (20:12):
so we need to know what strains we have
tiger says to (20:12):
I know of a few keepers up my way who have been losing animals for years, without even attemting to find out the reasons
NoOne says to (20:12):
we have had 2 identified strains
jayson says to (20:12):
we need to bring this problem out in the open and try to get some answers
NoOne says to (20:12):
there are about 7 known strains
NoOne says to (20:12):
i think
Simondo says to (20:12):
Are there 4 or 7 diseases being confused as 1 here?
NoOne says to (20:13):
no doubt we have more than 2 in australia
Davo says to (20:13):
in aus steve?
NoOne says to (20:13):
in all davo
_Daniel_ says to (20:13):
i thought as much but worries me is basically every heper i have talk to out of the NT will talk about OPMV but no-one in the NT has never spoken of it and their precautions
NoOne says to (20:13):
varied but all pretty much the same
Shane says to (20:13):
dont know Simon, ARP had 2 different strains of the same desiese
Fangz says (20:13):
Simon.............I also have no doubts that a lot of vets are saying OPMV
for deaths caused by RI's etc .....a lot of them arent true herp vets either
NoOne says to (20:13):
ours we very different to other cases
Alex says to (20:13):
has anyone noticed that diamonds seem to be more susceptible to this virus than other snakes, i reckon diamond python syndrome/soggy snake is a strain of it.
dyingsun says to (20:14):
It used to be thought a primarily elapid disease.
NoOne says to (20:15):
i think diamonds are suseptible to it because they arent kept properly and
their immune systems are less than other species
Fangz says (20:15):
Diamonds seem to be the ones it predominately affects but anything we hear about is only anecdotal evidence..the big trouble is people who lose an animal usually dont bother spending any money on an autopsy
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:15):
diamonds do seeem to suffer from alot of things
butternuts says to (20:16):
could that mean that older reps could be more suseptible
NoOne says to (20:16):
because they arent kept properly
Alex says to (20:16):
i have noticed over the last year or so, alot of keepers have been loosing
diamonds to similar symptoms
Simondo says to (20:16):
Mebe Diaonds have weaker genetics?
Shane says to (20:16):
I reckon diamonds should be a class 2 animal but thats another story
Fangz says (20:16):
exactly Steve.when an animal is under stress for whatever reasons then an opportunity comes up for nasty things to happen to them
NoOne says to (20:16):
diamonds are one of those snakes that will go alone ok but never thrive if
they aren't cared for properly
Davo says to (20:17):
is it in wild snakes?
NoOne says to (20:17):
definatly shane
Fangz says (20:17):
for instance..... how many people who keep diamonds know what their prefered body temp is?
NoOne says to (20:18):
i would say there would be native strains of OPMV
NoOne says to (20:18):
IMO the only real way to keep diamonds properly is to keep them outside in their natural range
NoOne says to (20:18):
it's very hard to do it right inside
Fangz says (20:19):
would solve a lot of issues steve thats for sure
Shane says to (20:19):
most people (new commers) keep diamonds way too hot
NoOne says to (20:19):
yep
NoOne says to (20:19):
thats the biggest problem
dpeica says to (20:19):
and feed too much. Im not the only one here that thinks diamonds should be put up into class 2 because of their requirements
Shane says to (20:20):
thats for sure
Fangz says (20:20):
any to date OPMV has been confrmed in diamonds,bredli and a lot of
elapids........................any else?
Alex says to (20:21):
maculosa
_Daniel_ says to (20:21):
nath people breed them up here to, but have what they call ocassional
deaths, which are thought of to be nothing
Shane says to (20:21):
childreni
NoOne says to (20:21):
OPMV has been confirmed in all python species in australia
NoOne says to (20:21):
most elapids and colubrids
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:21):
lol true steve but with no health issues so far ect and been breeding for a
few years and peoples stories of how diamonds dont last more than 5 up here
Davo says to (20:21):
was'nt there some waters a while ago?
tiger says to (20:21):
how did your Bredli fare Steve
NoOne says to (20:22):
shes feeding again
NoOne says to (20:22):
but not living well
NoOne says to (20:22):
imo she's been brain damaged from it
NoOne says to (20:22):
shes over opmv no doubt there
africancichlidau says to (20:22):
like my missus Steve :)
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:22):
scott told me the other day one of his books had a paragraph of opmv in
ppogona he was going to post it in the thread
Fangz says (20:22):
have you made a decision about her yet Steve?
NoOne says to (20:22):
i think being gravid pulled her through it
Simondo says to Shane (20:23):
Maybe this disease is native to other reptiles, like skinks for example, and
is not able to be dealt with by Pythons as this disease is new to them???
NoOne says to (20:23):
not yet mark, if shes feeding for now im happy to leave her been until i can work out something worth while for her to be tested
Shane says to (20:23):
opmv in pogona would be a big thing
Shane says to (20:23):
that would change everything
NoOne says to (20:24):
yep
Shane says to (20:24):
how does he know it has opmv nath?
Fangz says (20:24):
well while we are talking about her Steve.Im sure that a lot of us here
would only be too keen to help out for any and all testing avaialble
africancichlidau says to (20:24):
But is it not another, (adenovirus), virus that was found in Pogona?
bnathanbrisvegas says to (20:24):
no it was in a book
Shane says to (20:24):
yes Mark, thats a good idea
Simondo says to (20:25):
What testing does the USA have that we we don't have here????
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:25):
it was published in one of his old reptile health books and it was from the
states
Davo says to (20:25):
it would be good if you could have her tested to see if their is still
traces ofthe virus steve
NoOne says to (20:25):
i cant see how OPMV could survive for a long period outside of a snake
Fangz says (20:26):
apparently the machine needed for the testing is very pricey.......1mil+
the hobby on this country is way too small for anyone to fund something like that
NoOne says to (20:26):
i will be keeping everyone informed about the bredli female mark
dpeica says to (20:26):
I still think everything should be considered a carrier until more is known
about it.
Simondo says to (20:26):
We don't even know if it is a virus or what yet, do we?
jayson says to (20:26):
do we know if anyone has had cases in Colubrids
dyingsun says to (20:26):
Last I heard a definitive test was being worked on in Florida, but was
nowhere near completion.
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:26):
it is a virus im pretty sure
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:26):
well from what ive read ect
NoOne says to Simondo (20:26):
because it's a weak virus we doesnt survive well outsideof a host
NoOne says to (20:27):
its a paramyxovirus
NoOne says to (20:27):
its a virus
Fangz says (20:28):
it is most definately a virus............in this country the only way to
prove an animal is infected in by getting an autopsy done
Simondo says to (20:28):
Therefore virus = blood or airborne?
Simondo says to Shane (20:28):
DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fangz says (20:28):
jury is out Simon.but yes airbourne,fluids,mites etc are all suspected
Simondo says to (20:28):
Sorry guys, of course it is a virus
NoOne says to (20:28):
you can get tests done on live animals OS with blood taken from the heart
which is tested for anti bodies
Shane says to (20:28):
airborne from what a lot of documentation reports
Simondo says to (20:29):
Airborne for 2m or 10m or 50m?
Shane says to (20:29):
i've read docs from breeders in the US who have had it in animals and do
tests on organ samples to see how they are progressing
NoOne says to (20:29):
the reason we dont have the test here is mainly down to the fact that one
person is working on it and having no support
africancichlidau says to (20:29):
aren't they still working on those pre-mortem tests Steve?
_Daniel_ says to (20:29):
is it 100% steve?
dyingsun says to (20:29):
Who's researching it here Steve?
dpeica says to (20:29):
how do we go about getting those tests available here?
NoOne says to (20:29):
they dont need to but they still do if a snake dies suddenly obviously
NoOne says to (20:30):
the main thing holding it back is getting live opmv cultures to stay alive
Shane says to (20:30):
yep, and what research that was being done was dropped when newcastle
disease and bird flu took the front seat
Fangz says (20:30):
Steve would be the most up to speed on this issue so perhaps he might want to type up what he has learnt about it so far?
NoOne says to (20:31):
there are blood tests that can be done here but they arent reliable really
and work on a simple reaction
Simondo says to Shane (20:31):
Who is the 1 person doing the research here in Oz?
Davo says to (20:31):
your bredli would be a great subject to test like that if we had the
technology in aus steve
Fangz says (20:31):
Tim Hyndman in WA
NoOne says to (20:32):
Tims other big problem is getting good samples, being in WA CALM wont let him import anything dead or alive, because offically WA doesnt have OPMV
Shane says to (20:32):
I reckon it would be hard to get Tim over here but it might be possible to
do a video conference to put on the site maybe
dpeica says to (20:32):
can he even import animals into WA to study?
Fangz says (20:32):
yeah shane for sure
Shane says to (20:32):
fangz and I have spoken about this before
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:33):
a vid conference or even a phone interveiw would be good
Fangz says (20:33):
he would only be able to deal with cases that originate from WA
NoOne says to (20:33):
he also said that the other pathology labs like IDEXX cant realese any
samples or they breach their standards group which takes a along time to get into
Simondo says to Shane (20:33):
vid conference would ROCK
Shane says to (20:33):
yep, phone interview would be a good start
Shane says to (20:33):
as fangz has said we could do the whole conference this way
Fangz says (20:34):
well if Shane can organise a video conference or phone interview them maybe everyone should have a think about what questions should be asked?
Shane says to (20:34):
make it video on demand on the new aussiereptilemedia site
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:34):
sounds good
Shane says to (20:34):
yes Mark, and for other interested vets
Fangz says (20:34):
yup
NoOne says to (20:35):
im thinking of taking my female bredli down to Mark Simpson soon i might
talk to him about it, see if he wants in
Shane says to (20:35):
if we could get a couple of vets on board that would be quite an
achievement to start out with
_Daniel_ says to (20:35):
makes it alot more accesible for those who are not in the southern states
like me...great idea :)
Fangz says (20:35):
I honestly think that at this point in time safe husbandry practises should
have top priority....A few of us in here have had some pretty strict
practises in place for years
NoOne says to (20:36):
trouble is mark most people wouldnt follow what needs to be done to make sure you dont get opmv
Fangz says (20:36):
Steve.I am sure David Vella would love a chance at her too.he is a good vet and he keeps reptiles
Shane says to (20:36):
true
Simondo says to Shane (20:36):
Strict Husbandry is a great start
dpeica says to (20:36):
need to educate people about it first.
Shane says to (20:36):
I hear lots of good things about David Vella
Fangz says (20:36):
maybe Steve but for everyone we can convince to do things correctly its one less that might be spreading it
NoOne says to (20:37):
i mean look at me, i was far from slack, always cleaned cages washed hands between snakes, but i did 6 months of quaratine on a couple of snakes
NoOne says to (20:37):
honestly APS isn't doing us any favours
NoOne says to (20:38):
people think that its over reacting
Simondo says to (20:38):
I think we should get a mix of herpers who have had OPMV and vets and
hopefully a rep from a testing place
Fangz says (20:38):
true Steve.however if the keeper who supplied the source did what you did then maybe it would of been a diff story?
NoOne says to (20:38):
and theres nothing to worry about
Simondo says to (20:39):
REALLY, what area we trying to achieve here?
NoOne says to (20:40):
that everyone is aware that OPMV is out there and should be taking
precautions
_Daniel_ says to (20:40):
to be honest i knew absolutly nothign about OPMV and IBD and the alike
before i became an ARK regular reader, i knew they were out there but
nothign else, so i would like to congratulate Shane on great informative
site and Steve for sharing all his
Simondo says to (20:40):
Understanding this disease and then the IMMEDIATE passing of this knowledge onto the General Public?
_Daniel_ says to (20:40):
informationa nd experiences
NoOne says to (20:40):
to promote some honestly amoung herps about it
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:41):
help setup some precautions
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:41):
learn as much as we can to stop it spreading ect
Fangz says to (20:41):
yup.educate on ways to limti its opportuntiy to infect collections
Simondo says to (20:41):
EXCELLENT
dpeica says to (20:41):
how are we going to go about doing those things?
Shane says (20:41):
thanks Dan, we;re all very keen to make everybody aware of whats happening
NoOne says to (20:41):
i would like to see a short peice in BIG letters sent out with every new
license in all states
Fangz says to (20:41):
its alredy being done dpeica
Shane says (20:42):
before we go too far, how often and when shoud we hold these chats?
dpeica says to (20:42):
I know..but a lot of people have no interest in learning about it.
Fangz says to (20:43):
thee isnt a lot that can be done about anyone who prefers to be ignorant
about it unfortunately
Simondo says to (20:43):
Weekly or twice weekly????
Shane says (20:43):
at least weekly, twice weekly would be great
dpeica says to (20:43):
those are the people that will hold everyone else back.
_Daniel_ says to (20:43):
steve that would be a VERY effective way of spreading awareness, maybe
include a copy of the rigeme made by the nsw gov?
Fangz says to (20:43):
I think weekely.perhaps a regular Sunday night.................gives
everyone a chance to have a think about how this should be approached
Davo says to (20:44):
we need more info from the people that do know.vets etc.obviously the
amercans know a bit more scince they have these testing facilities , so is
there any way of tracking someone down from over there via the net
Simondo says to (20:44):
They will try to, but those of us that forge ahead will get to where we wnat
to be in the end
Shane says (20:44):
how about weekly with a informal wednesday night session in here
Davo says to (20:44):
cool
Simondo says to (20:44):
DONE
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:44):
sounds good shane
Fangz says to (20:44):
even without having all the answers at hand there are quite a few people in this room tonight who can offer practical solutions to help keepers
protect their collections
NoOne says to _Daniel_ (20:45):
i think something short in big letters with some references as to where to
get more info would be good
Shane says (20:45):
ok, main chat sunday night at 9 and than wednesday informal opmv chat at 9pm
Simondo says to (20:45):
If someone has links to a vet in the States, THAT would be MGAIC
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:45):
indeed
tiger says to (20:45):
I'm sure we all do our best to prevent it but maybe we are missing
something, thats whwere the education comes in I guess
_Daniel_ says to NoOne (20:46):
fair enough steve, so the irognant people dont say that to much writing and chuck it out.
NoOne says to (20:46):
if things are to long then people dont read it
dpeica says to (20:46):
would making herps harder to get help in regards to education people?..say making people actually study and complete a test before theyget their licence?
Simondo says to (20:46):
I think we need to educate ourselves as it is so new
dpeica says to (20:46):
educating*
tiger says to (20:46):
Even for us nobody really knows the extent of this/these viruses
eipper says to (20:47):
WHO HERE HAS MADER 2006
tiger says to (20:47):
no
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:48):
whats mador ?
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:48):
mader ?
Shane says (20:48):
hi scott, no I havnt :(
eipper says to (20:48):
there is some references to opmv and its presence in Pogona and Caimen
Lizards
eipper says to (20:48):
Reptile Medicine
Fangz says to (20:48):
I think that herp societies should get right behind this issue
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:49):
so lizards is another side to it
NoOne says to (20:49):
A site with just info about OPMV would be good as well, then anytime someone wants info on it they can just be given a link
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:49):
that too would be a good idea
Simondo says to (20:50):
OPMV.com
Fangz says to (20:50):
question for everyone in here....................would you be willing to
travel perhaps interstate to attend a conference on this issue?
tiger says to (20:50):
yes
Simondo says to (20:50):
DEFINATEL
peter says to (20:50):
hi guys, sorry im late
_Daniel_ says to (20:50):
exactly steve, i think having links on as many sites as possible would be
good, so not just poeple that ask for info get it, so its in everyones face
and people start to reconize there is a problem
dpeica says to (20:50):
yes.
Simondo says to (20:51):
Sydney is $100 each way from anywhere in AusLand
Shane says (20:52):
maybe we should develop something (banners, links etc) to send to all aussie herp sites for them to put on their sites?
eipper says to (20:52):
An interesting paragraph from the book if people are interested?
Fangz says to (20:52):
banners to direct them to a site that has info on opmv?
_Daniel_ says to (20:53):
yes shane exactly my point but steve idea for a OPMV dedicated site would make it easier to just have one link known as the OPMV reference
Shane says (20:54):
i'm happy to develop an independant OPMV dedicated site
Fangz says to (20:55):
sounds good Shane...................what about everyone search for info on
OPMV and forward to somewhere so it could all be added to one site?
eipper says to (20:55):
A virus with morphologic characteristics suggestive of paramyxovirus was
detected with electron microscopy in ascitic fluid collected from a Bearded Dragon with Hepatitis (FROM Mader , 2006 pg 404)
Shane says (20:56):
thats not good Scott
Fangz says to (20:56):
the problem is that a lot of times Shane gets left holding the baby so to
speak............I know how much work he is putting into various projects
so he could do with lots of help
eipper says to (20:56):
certainly worth a caution
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:56):
massively worth a caution
Shane says (20:56):
for sure
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:57):
most my collection is lizards 90 percent of
Shane says (20:57):
If I can get support on this i'm happy to do it
peter says to (20:57):
Its interesting, it may be valid but its like comparing Feline Aids to human
Aids
peter says to (20:57):
they may not be the same virus
Fangz says to (20:58):
yes Peter.......bit like mites etc.............some affect snakes some
lizards
eipper says to (20:58):
come on Peter....this is a very reputable source.....not just a single vet
or a
peter says to (20:58):
Its worth keeping in mind but it should be explained so as not to cause too
much panic
eipper says to (20:58):
all I am saying caution around bearded is worth it
peter says to (20:59):
I agree Scott
peter says to (20:59):
Caution is paramount
nathanbrisvegas says to (20:59):
yes but like we where saying the other day scott agamids are further away from snakes than say varanids so could varanids too be at risk ?
Fangz says to (20:59):
I think it all boils down to decent keeping practises in the first place
scott.........
eipper says to (20:59):
panic not required but they should under the same quarantine protocols as the rest
eipper says to (21:00):
not sold on etc
eipper says to (21:00):
varanids I would think would of been a smaller bow to draw nath
Fangz says to (21:00):
anyone care to have a go at writting up a list of FAQ's?
peter says to (21:00):
There is no reason to say that lizards cannot get a parmyxo virus, they are
not exclusive to snakes
eipper says to (21:00):
than agamids
Shane says (21:01):
seems that it's certainly possible
nathanbrisvegas says to (21:01):
does a smaller bow to draw mean easier ?
eipper says to (21:01):
Newcastle Disease is an avian version
eipper says to (21:01):
yep
Davo says to (21:01):
is ibd totally different to opmv.they are similler symptons?
eipper says to (21:01):
another paragraph if you will
Davo says to (21:04):
is ibd totally different to opmv.they are similler symptons?
Soulweaver says to (21:04):
ibd is different, but there are symptoms that are the same
Soulweaver says to (21:05):
there are a lot of diseases that carry the same symotoms
peter says to (21:05):
Jordo, there has been a confirmed case of a "paramyxo virus" being found in a bearded dragon
eipper says to (21:05):
A paramyxovirus with protiens that cross reacted with antibodies directed
against Ophidian paramyxovirus was recovered from recently imported Caimen Lizards Dracaena guianensis with proliferative pneumonia
africancichlidau says to (21:05):
yeah but were they sick?
nathanbrisvegas says to (21:06):
it seems that it attacks already sick animals
nathanbrisvegas says to (21:06):
while their immune systems is low
jordo says to (21:06):
makes sense Nath
tiger says to (21:07):
So is it something that exists in all reptiles and surfaces when conditions
are right? like some cancers in humans
peter says to (21:07):
its probably either present and shows when resistance is lower or cause
lower resistance to infection
dyingsun says to (21:07):
It also seems to present with respiratory symptoms, which could go hand in hand with the pneumonia.
Simondo says to (21:07):
Therefore if you keep your collections healthy and clean, they may be less likely to contract OPMV?
nathanbrisvegas says to (21:07):
perhaps
Soulweaver says to Shane (21:08):
but there seems to be diffferent strains
Shane says (21:08):
yes Luke it appears that there are several strains
eipper says to (21:08):
the virus was detected with electron microscopy in tissue homogenates. In
addition syncytial cell formation was noted in viper heart cells with 10
days of inoculation with lung, liver, and kidney homogenates from affected lizards
peter says to (21:09):
Thats possible but it just my have multiple symptoms or allow other
infection that add symptoms
Soulweaver says to (21:11):
need to get in touch with the researcers in the us, see where they are up
too
Davo says to (21:11):
US herp vets would be the go
Simondo says to (21:11):
We NEED to get assistance from the USA
eipper says to (21:12):
to put it fairly simply in paragraph about......opmv is able to move from
lizards to snakes
eipper says to (21:12):
if it could not occur then the virus would not of affected the vipers cells
Simondo says to (21:12):
Like HIV from Monkeys to Humans in the 1960's
eipper says to (21:13):
someone said that snake mites could not tranmit to lizards
eipper says to (21:14):
due to the mites on snakes are different to the ones on lizards
peter says to (21:14):
mites can transfer from lizards to rats to birds to humans to snakes
nathanbrisvegas says to ricko (21:14):
aaaah cool
eipper says to (21:14):
in the wild yes
dyingsun says to (21:14):
I have Elliot Jacobson's email somewhere on a backup disc - he says Karrie Rose may be collecting statistics and samples, too. He might be willing to do a phone interview.
Fangz says to (21:15):
are snake mites different to the ones that affect lizards? I always thought
that they were
Soulweaver says to (21:15):
different breed
Fangz says to (21:15):
each exclusive
eipper says to (21:15):
which can change hosts
eipper says to (21:15):
no luke
peter says to (21:15):
I have found them on wild caught RBBs regularly
peter says to (21:16):
they move to bluetongues without any problem
eipper says to (21:16):
they are not species/family
eipper says to (21:16):
specific
Fangz says to (21:16):
snake mites can affect lizards and vica versa?
nathanbrisvegas says to (21:16):
yessum fangz
eipper says to (21:16):
agamids, varanid, pygos, geckos, boids, colubrids and elapids...all the same exotic mite
Soulweaver says to (21:16):
i thought they could only live on each other for 72 hrs or something like
that
eipper says to (21:17):
they live and bred happily with lizards
Fangz says to (21:17):
well I have learnt something tonight.................can you point me toward
any references Scott?
Davo says to (21:17):
are the mites an introduced thing or native
eipper says to (21:17):
understanding reptile parasites
Shane says (21:17):
Same here, it's been very interesting and a good start
Fangz says to (21:17):
depends who you talk to davo
eipper says to (21:18):
availble from Mike Swan
eipper says to (21:18):
no davo the red ones (on geckos and skinks) are native
Davo says to (21:18):
tim nias is really good on reptile parasites
Soulweaver says to (21:18):
looks like we will all be doing some re-reading
Fangz says to (21:19):
we have always quarantined pythons for extended periods of time but havent really bothered with lizards
Davo says to (21:19):
ah ok scott
eipper says to (21:19):
which as the above paras show is a very dangerous undertaking mark
Fangz says to (21:19):
so it seems Scott
Simondo says to (21:20):
How long is long enough for reptile quarantine????
Fangz says to (21:20):
depends who you ask Simon.............most say 6 months but ask Steve
Daniel_Gilbertson says to (21:20):
looks like 12 months now
Davo says to (21:20):
tim nias says 12 months is'nt enough
Soulweaver says to (21:20):
knowing that about mites, i would of answered, or at least thought about
your question the other day differently scott
eipper says to (21:20):
Reptile Medicine and Surgery second edition edited by Douglas Mader
eipper says to (21:21):
the best book on the market by far
Soulweaver says to (21:21):
it is, well worth the $200
Simondo says to (21:21):
Is the book by Roger J. Klingenberg D.V.M. Scott?
Fangz says to (21:21):
well I definately think a list of FAQs about this is a must
peter says to (21:21):
If reptiles can carry the virus until low immunity gives the virus chance to
show, ie, poor hygiene etc then it could be present for years
eipper says to (21:21):
and fairly cheap compared to the possible outcome of losing a collection
nathanbrisvegas says to (21:22):
yer peter i was thinking the same thing before when we where talking about immune systems ect so they could be carrying for years until one day they get sick and wamo it kicks in
Fangz says to (21:22):
what are your thoughts on vectors and OPMV Scott?
peter says to (21:22):
Im just putting it out there for duscussion
Soulweaver says to (21:23):
in theroy does/should quarantine ever really end?
Shane says (21:23):
not really
eipper says to (21:23):
keepers thumbs, lack of ventilation in the room, mites, un sanitary
condtions
_Daniel_ says to (21:23):
this keep sounding more and more like HIV?
Shane says (21:23):
sure does, herp HIV
Davo says to (21:23):
thats alot of rooms to keep everything seperated
Fangz says to (21:24):
it does at some stage such as breeding season but proper husbandry 100% of the time is a must
Soulweaver says to (21:24):
we now have feeding tongs etc for every cage, no matter if it is in
quarantine or part of collection
eipper says to (21:25):
tongs are one thing
eipper says to (21:25):
hooks, holding bins etc
Shane says (21:25):
but i use latex gloves a lot more now
Soulweaver says to (21:25):
so do i shane
eipper says to (21:25):
I use them for forcing shane
Fangz says to (21:25):
one of the biggest issues is water bowls and their management
peter says to (21:26):
I put it on a plate
eipper says to (21:26):
dribbling taipans and open cuts
Shane says (21:26):
with a napkin Pete?
peter says to (21:26):
serious
Soulweaver says to (21:26):
starting to use more water bowls that can be thrown away now, more then i used to
peter says to (21:26):
by them from the $2 shop, big pile of party plates
Fangz says to (21:26):
I would use 100% disposable if I could find decent sized ones and ones that couldnt be knocked over by large pythons
dpeica says to (21:26):
I've been using chinese containers...and just throw them out every time I
change the water now.
Shane says (21:26):
yeah JW has been saying for a while now that they use disposable chinese
containers for water bowls
Soulweaver says to (21:27):
also cator suppliers, save heaps if you buy bulk
eipper says to (21:27):
concrete surrounds for them
tiger says to (21:27):
Is cleaning bowls with F10 then soap and water ok?
Fangz says to (21:27):
how do you clean the concrete properly?
Soulweaver says to (21:27):
or you screw one into the cage, then drop the one you use into the screwed in one
eipper says to (21:27):
boil it
Shane says (21:28):
thats a good idea Luke
dyingsun says to (21:28):
Id do it the other way round Tiger, use the soap & water first.
Fangz says to (21:28):
would be easier to use ceramic bowls in the first place then
eipper says to (21:28):
yep
Soulweaver says to (21:29):
not my idea shane, stole it from neil sonnerman
Shane says (21:29):
I dont use disposable water bowls here
Shane says (21:29):
i still use ceramics
Soulweaver says to (21:29):
i use tupperware, cheap and can be thrown away
eipper says to (21:29):
same here shane
_Daniel_ says to (21:30):
i use large plastic tubs that i thoroughly clean, with soap
Fangz says to (21:30):
Tiger......we collect all the water bowls and wash them in detergent and
hot water.same as you do your dishes.......then we soak in F10 for an hour or so,rinse off in hot water and let them air dry
_Daniel_ says to (21:30):
working on the f10
Soulweaver says to (21:30):
is from some of the real dodgy chinese type $2 sho[s
Isis says to (21:30):
i have just been told by a vt that if you microwave the water dishes for 10
mins that they are sterilised
Fangz says to (21:31):
thats good if you only have one or two bowls Isis but when you have 30+
large ceramic bowls to do it would take ages
Soulweaver says to (21:31):
at the end of the day there is no garentee that F10 even kills opmv
tiger says to (21:31):
I'm doing it arse about then, do you do that weekly Fangz?
Davo says to (21:32):
industrial size microwave
Fangz says to (21:32):
yes weekly.however if ypu havent got a huge collection I would recommend 2 times a week
africancichlidau says to (21:32):
autoclave is good for sterilization
Soulweaver says to (21:32):
where are you going to get a autoclave from phil?
Simondo says to (21:33):
What about the UV Sterilizers that docs and Dentisits use?
africancichlidau says to (21:33):
will have one within the month souly :) You know where I work :)
Fangz says to (21:33):
this is one of the biggest problems............husbandry solutions need to
be simple and effective
africancichlidau says to (21:33):
Yup UV sterilizers are good but you have to use the UVC tubes
Shane says (21:34):
I have an autoclave but it hasnt been used for ages
africancichlidau says to (21:34):
why Shane?
Soulweaver says to (21:34):
might be time to breaki it out again?
Simondo says to (21:35):
Surely an Autoclave would kill the **er
Shane says (21:35):
I havnt had an animal come into my collection for a long time, I suppose i'm complacent
Soulweaver says to (21:35):
well they say it does with cats and dogs simondo, but can't say 100% with
reptiles
Shane says (21:35):
and the autoclave isnt real roomy, it would take ages to do waterbowls
africancichlidau says to (21:36):
aha, fairy nuff
Shane says (21:36):
it's more for instruments, I used to use it for cleaning things like
scepulars, forceps etc
Fangz says to (21:36):
things need practical solutions.............how many UV sterilizers or
autoclaves would be purchased by keepres?
Simondo says to (21:36):
But if you only did 3 viv's per day then you would be fine
MattE says to (21:36):
Autoclaves, need to be maintained and used correctly to be effective... my old man is a tech for them
Shane says (21:36):
not many
tiger says to (21:36):
What happens to everyones paper substrate after enclosure cleanouts. I clean as they ** (rather than weekly or whenever )but the paper goes into a bag outside the shed until its full. Is that a risk?
Davo says to (21:36):
i thought f10 was the you beaut stuff luke
Shane says (21:36):
I spoke to Stephen Weir some time back about UV sterilisation
Shane says to eipper (private) (21:37):
I'll talk to him about that
Shane says (21:37):
very pricey
peter says to (21:37):
yeah, i remember that
africancichlidau says to (21:37):
yes it is shane, you need exy control gear and the tubes are very pricey too
peter says to (21:37):
I put the paper into the bin
Soulweaver says to (21:37):
davo it is, and best on market and i use it, but as they say nothing is 100%
Shane says (21:37):
I clean as they crap Mike
Fangz says to (21:38):
same shane
eipper says to (21:38):
maybe this is too far...remember your food items aren't sterile
Fangz says to (21:38):
way overboard Scott
Shane says (21:38):
not if you make sure you dont contaminate yourself Mike
nathanbrisvegas says to MattE (21:38):
sorry to bail so soon all btu i have to eat may be back might not cyu
dyingsun says to (21:38):
We used to use a UV at Camperdown when the boiler was on the blink. It was a bloody pain in the backside trying to make sure every surface was exposed.
Shane says (21:38):
thats true, filthy vermin
Fangz says to (21:38):
practical solutions are needed
tiger says to (21:38):
Generally wash between enclosures shane
peter says to (21:39):
If you have considered rats as possible vector then concern over food could be something to think about
Fangz says to (21:39):
how many people here have enclosures with crud down in between the floor and wall sheets?
Davo says to (21:39):
it's gotta be habit.just a routine you get into
Shane says (21:39):
gawd, rats with opmv, what next! ;)
peter says to (21:39):
We have discussed the possibility of it being an ophidian form of CJD or BEC
Isis says to (21:39):
Thats why I'm breeding my own now
peter says to (21:40):
BES
peter says to (21:40):
BSE?
peter says to (21:40):
mad cow disease
africancichlidau says to (21:40):
my missus got that Pete
Davo says to (21:41):
you mean in the corners mark?mine are all siliconed for easy cleaning
Fangz says to (21:41):
yeah davo
Fangz says to (21:41):
bet some crud is still in there
_Daniel_ says to (21:42):
i use more paper than nessary and make it go around 15cm up each wall for ease of cleaning because my snake like to crap in the corners to anoy me
tiger says to (21:43):
There would be a certain amount of residue in every enclosure, but we'll
never get them sterile and prbably woulnd't really want them
Soulweaver says to (21:43):
maybe we should all just keep pictures of snakes, it is alot safer :)
eipper says to (21:43):
plastic urs/neodesha style cages are the go
tiger says to (21:44):
Yeh Scott much easier to keep clean.
peter says to (21:44):
dont like the overhang at the front though
eipper says to (21:44):
yeppers
_Daniel_ says to (21:44):
120L plastic tubs are the go 22buks from bunnings :P
_Daniel_ says to (21:44):
can even afford to chuck em out once in a while and restart
eipper says to (21:44):
just ask a few yanks who keep arboreals like Dendroaspis
Davo says to (21:45):
might have to get that butchers paper..easier to fold up the sides
Fangz says to (21:45):
we have perspex trays in the bottom of our enclosures.works well
eipper says to (21:45):
i have lineo
Simondo says to (21:45):
The trouble with 120 litre tubs is how do you happily keep a snake larger
than 60cm in it?????
eipper says to (21:46):
I have kept 7ft taipans in plastic underbed storers simon
Simondo says to (21:47):
Don't they require somewhere to stretch out sometimes Scott?
eipper says to (21:47):
bit of fun getting in and out
_Daniel_ says to (21:47):
and you can get even bigger tubs but they go up to the 50+ mark, have you seen the yanks, they only keep their snakes in underbed storage boxes lol
eipper says to (21:48):
not in my exp simon
Shane says (21:48):
I asked this question earlier, i'll ask it again, does anybody object to a
cut down transcript of this session being made available on the site?
Davo says to (21:48):
no
peter says to (21:48):
would like to see it happen
eipper says to (21:48):
nope
Simondo says to (21:48):
Go for it Shane
_Daniel_ says to (21:48):
no
MattE says to (21:48):
nope
Shane says (21:48):
cool
Simondo says to (21:48):
post a link to a PDF file transcript
eipper says to (21:49):
maybe somes refs to whats in it may help shane
eipper says to (21:49):
opmv and lizards, mites, etc
Shane says (21:49):
yeah, that would be good
Shane says (21:50):
I'd like to make the best parts of these chat sessions available each week
so i'll work on that
eipper says to (21:51):
yeah read rep med and surgrey cover to cover mike, a mandatory text for this subject
MattE says to (21:52):
Sorry a bit off the husbandry topic but...Does OPMV have any known
relationship to Newcastle disease
peter says to (21:53):
its aparamyxovirus Matt
eipper says to (21:53):
dunno matt both are paromyxovirus
peter says to (21:54):
but there may be millions of "species" of virus if thats the right term
Shane says to Simondo (21:56):
Well I reckon we got this off to a good start tonight
Simondo says to (21:56):
At least thestart of discussion is a great thing
MattE says to (21:57):
good turn out
peter says to (21:57):
yeah, I agree, hope it continues
Simondo says to (21:58):
It will continue as long as we all want it to Peter
Shane says (21:59):
well, we'll end the discussion at this point
_Daniel_ says to (21:59):
but the possibility came up to make a site dedicated to OPMV info
Simondo says to (22:00):
I think we managed to cover a few hundred topics tonight... lol
Shane says (22:02):
it went great Simon :)

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:22 am Post subject:

Thanks for posting it up, i missed the first half, what i did see was good Razz

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:50 am Post subject:

GREAT work Shane, keep it up.

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:30 am Post subject:

We had a lot of interest on Sunday night, we're running a one hour followup session tomorrow night (Wednesday) for anybody who is interested.

Shane

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:53 am Post subject:

I will be at a meeting but will drop in when i get home if its still running

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:57 am Post subject:

I will be joining when I can also.
So far I have been stuck doing that thing we all love to hate, work! Censored

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject:

I have noticed that a couple of vets have signed up on the site over the last few days.I really hope that they would be willing to get involved with this issue.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:15 am Post subject:

What time is this forum being conducted tonight? Will try to be on if home

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:44 am Post subject:

Hi there HerpDoc, we're in there at 9pm Webnesday and Sunday evenings at 9pm.

Welcome to ARK Smile

Shane

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject:

Sorry everybody, I forgot to post last Wednesday nights OPMV chat transcript. I had a bad storm here and missed the beginning. It was an interesting session to say the least.

Comments anyone?
===============================
NoOne says to (20:23):
like our cases, our diamond didn't die from it, we had it euthed for testing the bredli didn't get any secondary signs
HerpDoc says to (20:23):
that can happen as well, there are no hard and fast rules
NoOne says to (20:23):
respitory infections are very common with OPMV
HerpDoc says to (20:24):
thats because the virus directly attacks the cells in the resp tract
TNias says to (20:25):
hey herpdoc, you got a name ?
HerpDoc says to (20:25):
yup, franciscus
TNias says to (20:25):
ahh gday
NoOne says to (20:25):
but neither of my cases had any signs of respitory infections?
NoOne says to (20:25):
why would that be?
HerpDoc says to (20:26):
virus may not have made its way there, also likes to live in neurological tissue
judith says to (20:27):
how long can the virus live off the host? as in..how long could it be air born or carried on something else before 'dying'?
NoOne says to (20:27):
what would be the outcome for a snake that survived OPMV?
HerpDoc says to (20:27):
none survive, all die
NoOne says to (20:2 Cool

:
well mine survived
HerpDoc says to (20:2 Cool

:
no one knows how long can survive, if like other paramyxovirus prob unstable and dies easily
NoOne says to (20:2 Cool

:
ah k
Simondo says (20:29):
Mebe they had a similar but different disease NoOne???
NoOne says to (20:29):
na was housed next to a snake we had confirmed with OPMV
NoOne says to (20:29):
showed exact same signs
Simondo says (20:29):
THATS why we need better testing
HerpDoc says to (20:29):
was prob only a matter of time before died, did you have it confirmed by a pathologist?
*** (20:29):reptilegirl quit the room
NoOne says to (20:30):
yep neil sullivan
NoOne says to (20:30):
she's laid eggs and started feeding since
TNias says to (20:30):
they dont always die
HerpDoc says to (20:30):
still alive?
NoOne says to (20:30):
and kicking
HerpDoc says to (20:30):
yes they always die
TNias says to (20:31):
not from opmv they dont
HerpDoc says to (20:31):
can't be confirmed as OPMV then, only pre-mortem test is a haemagluttination test that is only available in florida
HerpDoc says to (20:31):
all snakes infected with OPMV die
peter says to alex (20:31):
all snakes die
NoOne says to (20:32):
I have one that doing alright
eipper says to (20:32):
not all die
NoOne says to (20:32):
there not much else it could have had but OPMV
HerpDoc says to (20:32):
as Isaid can only confirm OPMV at post-mortem and yes they all die
peter says to alex (20:32):
I would assume that if a snake survived the initial OPMV its life expectancy would be greatly reduced
NoOne says to (20:33):
yeah but that doesnt mean they cant survive
HerpDoc says to (20:33):
not true a many things can result in clinical signs similar to OPMV, just because it looks like it does not mean it is OPMV
HerpDoc says to (20:33):
they have been no recorded cases of animals surviving anywhere in the world
NoOne says to (20:33):
well mine came from a cage next to a confirmed case
TNias says to (20:33):
it isnt always fatal, if you want a 100% diagnosis then yeah ya kill it for it, but theres several cases around where snakes amongst a group have lived
NoOne says to (20:33):
because they are euth to test
HerpDoc says to (20:33):
does not mean much
HerpDoc says to (20:34):
no there aren't
NoOne says to (20:34):
even with identical symtoms at the same time?
HerpDoc says to (20:34):
yep
eipper says to (20:34):
you can look at titre levels to see if its had exposure (not conclusive) but if its showing the signs it could certainly indicate
HerpDoc says to (20:34):
CAN indicate but is not a diagnosis, that is a very important point
Simondo says (20:35):
We can prolly see a few of the external signs of OPMV, not necessarily ALL of the OPMV signs
TNias says to (20:35):
theres a study group of western massasaugas in usa a wild population, they tested several snakes among the population and all carried opmv
eipper says to (20:35):
have crotalus in the area been tested tim?
HerpDoc says to (20:35):
no they may have been exposed, does not mean they are carriers
eipper says to (20:35):
or Agkistrodon
TNias says to (20:36):
study was just the massasauga, crots
NoOne says to (20:36):
Several of the vets/researchers i spoke after my cases said it could be possible for them to survive but no one has let them, they get eith for testing
HerpDoc says to (20:36):
for them to be confirmed carriers they must demonstrate a rising titre over a period of time
HerpDoc says to (20:37):
possible but very unlikely
NoOne says to (20:37):
what would you say is going on with my bredli
NoOne says to (20:37):
?
HerpDoc says to (20:37):
it is possible for people to survive ebola as well but again highly unlikely, the majoriy will die
eipper says to (20:37):
they can survive look at some collections in the us
HerpDoc says to (20:3 Cool

:
with any virus a very small proportion of te population will either be immune or only become ill
eipper says to (20:3 Cool

:
so then by your own logic you can assume that some survive
HerpDoc says to (20:39):
survival has not been reported in the vet literature so very sceptical
eipper says to (20:39):
not in vet lit but fairly widely known in some viper collections in the us
eipper says to (20:39):
and europe
HerpDoc says to (20:40):
I guess you could say that eipper but it is very very very unlikely that many snakes are going to survive almost all are going to die
NoOne says to (20:40):
has anyone tried to keep them alive after showing signs?
HerpDoc says to (20:40):
anecdotal reports can't be taken as scientific fact
eipper says to (20:41):
not but at the same time just cause its yet to be published does not make it anecdotal
peter says to (20:41):
I know of one snake that is being kept that in all likelyhood has survived OPMV. It will be tested eventually. Unfortunately the owner is very secretive due to it being exotic
HerpDoc says to (20:41):
plenty of people have tried to keep them alive, treating them symptomatically but none survive
TNias says to (20:41):
when a group of 30 snakes all show identical signs and 25 die andopmv is confirmed in 50% of them i believe its safe to say they all had it
NoOne says to (20:42):
well i have a prime case for someone to look at
NoOne says to (20:42):
I will be taking mine to Mark Simpson soon
HerpDoc says to (20:42):
can't make that assumption tnias, we need scientific proof!!
NoOne says to (20:42):
mine came from the cage next to a confirmed case of OPMV and show the same signs
eipper says to (20:43):
thats prety much the same scenario's i have heard of in the usa tim
TNias says to (20:43):
tests on others showed they had definitly been exposed to it
eipper says to (20:43):
elevated titres?
TNias says to (20:44):
yea
Simondo says (20:44):
Maybe there are a few reoviruses that have very very similar external symptoms, but are different diseases in the end?
TNias says to (20:44):
they throw a basic antibody response to it, that is measurable
HerpDoc says to (20:45):
yeah correct simondo at the moment I am exploring the possiblity of a myxovirus causing similar symptoms in a coastal carpet
peter says to (20:46):
Ive always thought that, I had assumed in the beginning that OPMV was a blanket term
TNias says to (20:46):
theres plenty of thngs that cause identical symptoms, i had necropsys done on several suspected snakes and all came back as virus most unlikely, suspected toxicity most likely chemical
HerpDoc says to (20:47):
OPMV = ophdian paramyxovirus
Simondo says (20:4 Cool

:
It has REALLY stood out to me over the last couple of months of research i have done has showed some markedly differnet symptoms, which can easily be explained by some similar viruses with VERY similar symptoms????? MAYBE???
HerpDoc says to (20:4 Cool

:
correct simondo
HerpDoc says to (20:4 Cool

:
and probably many others that we don't know about yet as well
NoOne says to (20:49):
what are the chances of a different cause at the same time in the cage next to a confirmed case in a collection which had been diease free for over 9yrs
HerpDoc says to (20:50):
prob slim but should never assume anything
NoOne says to (20:50):
i dont assume things but i dont right them off either
peter says to (20:51):
HerpDoc says: OPMV = ophdian paramyxovirus -yes thats right, whats your point?????
Simondo says (20:51):
What if the same "infection" caused different outcomes in different animals due to genetics, or some other bizzare thing we haven't thought of as yet?????
HerpDoc says to (20:52):
that's what its called, specific virus not blanket term
HerpDoc says to (20:53):
possible simondo, can't discount an animals individual response to challenge from same agent
NoOne says to (20:53):
how many strains have been confirmed in australia?
peter says to (20:53):
Most symptoms are from diseases that have come about due to a weakened immunity. They are secondary symptoms.
HerpDoc says to (20:53):
2 strains suspect,not confirmed yet
HerpDoc says to (20:54):
not true peter, the symptoms in OPMV are due to the effects of the virus in the cells it lives in
Simondo says (20:54):
2 people may get coughed on by the same person, ie a kids parents, and yet they both display VERY dirrerent outcomes because of genetics, health, stress, etc????
NoOne says to (20:54):
thats what i was saying earlier peter
peter says to (20:54):
I disagree
peter says to (20:55):
pnuemonia ?
HerpDoc says to (20:55):
what are you saying peter?
Simondo says (20:55):
I agree 3 lines ago Peter
peter says to (20:55):
That there are other aspect as wel, secondary infections
HerpDoc says to (20:56):
the term pneumonia means infection of the lung it is not a symptom but a description of a disease
peter says to (20:56):
ok, so the infection of the lung is opmv?
Simondo says (20:56):
Different initial problems causing a weakened immunity, therefore when this virus gets to themthey react differently?
HerpDoc says to (20:57):
yep in some cases peter
peter says to (20:5 Cool

:
ok, I had rather a large number of snake die, i only had one tested and I euthanaised several more. Only the Morelia ssp seemed to be infected
peter says to (20:5 Cool

:
they show a large number of symptoms and not always the same set
MattE says to (21:02):
Have mites been proven to be a vector? or only strongly suspected?
HerpDoc says to (21:03):
strongly suspected
tiger says to (21:03):
Should every RI be considered suspected OPMV?
_Daniel_ says to Isis (21:03):
TOD's just became my new best friend lol
Simondo says (21:03):
What is the biggest factor in transmission of this disease HerpDoc?
HerpDoc says to (21:04):
quarantine and hygiene
peter says to (21:04):
or lack of
_Daniel_ says to (21:05):
so herpdoc you earlier said lizards can not carry the disease whats your view of qurantine for them?
TNias says to (21:05):
wet surface .. probly the best way to spread 90% of herp problems
eipper says to (21:05):
mader suggests otherwise
_Daniel_ says to (21:06):
virus*
peter says to (21:06):
moving animals around to different enclosure
TNias says to (21:06):
to wet surfaces scott ?
HerpDoc says to (21:07):
no he doesn't, I have a number of recent papers that say otherwise
eipper says to (21:07):
no lizard transmisson
HerpDoc says to (21:07):
still should quaratine lizards for at lest a month
peter says to (21:0 Cool

:
Just for the health of your other lizards alone
_Daniel_ says to eipper (21:09):
yeah i was thinking 1 month min and then as long as possible?
eipper says to (21:10):
under Paramyxoviridae pg 404 sub heading other Paramyxoviruses
HerpDoc says to (21:10):
1 month should be adequate
eipper says to (21:10):
mader 06
TNias says to (21:10):
is that mader or jacobsons article scott ?
TNias says to (21:11):
all of them
eipper says to (21:11):
mader
TNias says to (21:11):
in maders book yeah, but it is written by him ?
HerpDoc - How can we best prevent the transmission of this disease?
HerpDoc says to (21:04):
quarantine and hygiene
Simondo says (21:14):
Specifically?
HerpDoc says to (21:14):
important points simondo: always quarantine new animals and service them last, never buy sick or unhealthy looking animals, have them checked by a very and only buy from reputable people
Simondo says (21:15):
Quarantime times for Snakes?
eipper says to (21:15):
hang on sec tim
eipper says to (21:15):
bran ritchie
eipper says to (21:16):
speaks about Pogona and Dracena
TNias says to (21:16):
ahh cool
TNias says to (21:17):
ill have a sqizzy next time i can get the book here
HerpDoc says to (21:17):
a month for quarantine should be adequate
Simondo says (21:17):
for snakes?
HerpDoc says to (21:17):
with 2 negative faecals if possible
HerpDoc says to (21:17):
yep
HerpDoc says to (21:17):
anything longer is prob only and arbitary length
Simondo says (21:17):
Who tests the 2 negative fecals?
eipper says to (21:1 Cool

:
1 month?....every institute I know recommend much longer than that
HerpDoc says to (21:1 Cool

:
local vet should be able to do it
TNias says to (21:1 Cool

:
feclas for opmv ?
TNias says to (21:1 Cool

:
fecals
eipper says to (21:1 Cool

:
at least 90 days quar
Simondo says (21:1 Cool

:
That was my next Q?
HerpDoc says to (21:1 Cool

:
no faecals for opmv, but no test for it anyway
HerpDoc says to (21:1 Cool

:
why 90 days?
eipper says to (21:19):
you can look at titre levels over time to indicate exp
HerpDoc says to (21:19):
can't do that in oz eipper
Simondo says (21:19):
Can my local vet check fecals for OPMV?????????????????
peter says to (21:19):
1 month? that would reduce my vector window considerably and probably pinpoint the carrier
HerpDoc says to (21:19):
no faecals cant test for opmv, looking for parasites
NoOne says to (21:20):
No Simondo, no test for OPMV
TNias says to (21:20):
no simon , i think herp was generalising
eipper says to (21:20):
not sure ask aqis herp doc
Simondo says (21:20):
Which parasites?
HerpDoc says to (21:21):
as I said earlier these quarantine lengths of 12 months were plucked out of nowhere, I have personally seen snakes become ill after 3-4 years so where do you draw the line?
Simondo says (21:21):
And if no parasites then they are CLEAR of OPMV?
TNias says to (21:21):
aquis are somewhere between 3 months and 13 months
HerpDoc says to (21:21):
no not clear of opmv, just clear of internal parasites such as worms
eipper says to TNias (21:21):
maybe be but a month is very short
HerpDoc says to (21:21):
almost all other diseases will be picked-up in a month
Simondo says (21:22):
And that related to OPMV how????????
davo says to (21:22):
sounds like you just gotta be lucky not to get it
eipper says to (21:22):
a quar peroid should not just be related to parasites and some diseases
HerpDoc says to (21:22):
is not related to opmv, related to general health of animals
NoOne says to (21:22):
How long does OPMV usually take to show up in yoru experience Herpdoc?
NoOne says to (21:22):
in our case, it was 10 months
HerpDoc says to (21:22):
what should it be related to then herpdoc?
peter says to (21:22):
I guess your saying that most animals will produce symptoms in a month but there is always a chance that it could be dormant for longer periods?
HerpDoc says to (21:23):
can be 10 months, evidence to suggest may be much longer
HerpDoc says to (21:23):
that's right peter, the only way to truely avoid it would be to quarantine all animals for their entire life but that is not practical
NoOne says to (21:23):
with OPMV longer you have seen?
Simondo says (21:24):
If OPMV can be dormant for 4 years, then Quarantine may as well be for 3 months max and roll the dice
_Daniel_ says to (21:24):
i think peter was suming up what your saying herpdoc
HerpDoc says to (21:24):
not confirmed OPMV but a virus very similar that have not identified as yet but know have been cases in us longer that 10 months
HerpDoc says to (21:24):
correct simondo
NoOne says to (21:24):
do you think most cases show up in one month though?
HerpDoc says to (21:25):
not of opmv but of just about all other diseases
peter says to (21:25):
In my case the onset when the disease became noticable was well with the month
peter says to (21:25):
I had animals that i was unsure of and had one animla with a vet for a month, its subsequently died
Simondo says (21:25):
IN your opinion HerpDoc, what is the ideal length of time for Quarantine?
peter says to (21:26):
all others within 2 weeks
eipper says to (21:26):
In my case of opmv (4 yrs ago) (I got necro's) it showed up 6 months after aquiring the new stock
TNias says to (21:26):
thats signs of symptoms pete, be a hard one to say when it actually contracted the problem
eipper says to (21:27):
thankfully while the snakes where still in quar
eipper says to (21:27):
4 Pseudechis and 2 Notechis
peter says to (21:27):
true unfortunately
HerpDoc says to (21:27):
simondo about a month
NoOne says to (21:27):
so in your opinion, a month isn't being too frivilous?
peter says to (21:2 Cool

:
but if you wanted to make it longer simondo I dont think anyone will begrudge you
HerpDoc says to (21:2 Cool

:
nope that's how long we quarantine for at healesville
tiger says to (21:2 Cool

:
Herpdoc, would that be the general opinion of most vets do you think,.
HerpDoc says to (21:29):
we are actually in the process though of not accepting any python species unless they are from accredited ARAZPA institutions and even then are very nervous
HerpDoc says to (21:29):
might not be the general opinion of most vets but then not that many deal with reps
tiger says to (21:29):
Why are the symtons so different between pythons and elapids for example
Isis says to (21:30):
herpdoc has it effected elapids?
TNias says to (21:30):
bye scott
NoOne says to (21:30):
Mark Simpson recommends 12 months, and he's dealt many reptiles over many years
HerpDoc says to (21:30):
not shown to effect elapids but we have seen elapids with a similar condition so could be possible
TNias says to (21:31):
opmv definitly has affected elapids
HerpDoc says to (21:31):
mark simpson is entitled to that opinion I'mjust saying that it may be over-cautious
HerpDoc says to (21:31):
when tnias?
TNias says to (21:31):
few years back, aust reptile park
eipper says to (21:32):
a few other vets in melb reco longer than that
HerpDoc says to (21:32):
has never been reported ever, we are trying to identify it if we do it will be a world first
NoOne says to (21:32):
Perhaps Herpdoc, but one month quarantine sounds very frivilous, just my opinion
TNias says to (21:32):
what ya mean wasnt reported ?
NoOne says to (21:32):
ARP had it in elapids
HerpDoc says to (21:32):
I know a few vets recommend that but as I said it is an arbitary number
TNias says to (21:33):
even dpi's head vet at the time put it out on the internet
NoOne says to (21:33):
sorry Tim, didnt' see you wrote that before
HerpDoc says to (21:33):
there is no veterinary literature that says OPMV has been transmitted to elapids
TNias says to (21:33):
i dunno what literature youve been reading
HerpDoc says to (21:34):
only scientifically peoduced papers tnias
NoOne says to (21:34):
I've got it in an vetinary article I was provided with...?
TNias says to (21:34):
was even in the aun didst reptile mag article jo
TNias says to (21:34):
john wrote
HerpDoc says to (21:34):
any vet who had seen it would have written it up I canassure you
HerpDoc says to (21:34):
reptile mag is not a scientific journal
jayson says to (21:35):
you got that right
TNias says to (21:35):
well i suggest ya search for it , youll find it
peter says to (21:35):
then someone needs to get off their arse and write it up for the vets
tiger says to (21:36):
must say I'm a little more confused about OPMV now than I have ever been before
TNias says to (21:36):
arp cases are already published
HerpDoc says to (21:36):
have done tnias, this is forming part of my masters degree and have done an extensive lit search
peter says to (21:36):
cause if thats what it takes to get some serious consideration then we are going to get nowhere fast
TNias says to (21:36):
you spoke with weigel ?
NoOne says to (21:36):
Is IDXX wrong if they diagnose it in elapids ?
HerpDoc says to (21:37):
believe me peter this is at the fore-front of a lot of vets minds it is just not easy that is all
alex says to peter (21:37):
http://jvdi.org/cgi/reprint/16/5/442.pdf <------theres some scientific literature that states in the first paragraph it has been diagnosed in elapids
HerpDoc says to (21:37):
no they are not wrong but again I need to see it in writing and not just take your word for it
NoOne says to (21:37):
yep
peter says to (21:37):
fair enough
Shane says to (21:3 Cool

:
looks ridgey didge
tiger says to (21:39):
yep
HerpDoc says to (21:39):
yeah I have that paper as well but it does not say that it is exactly the same paramyxovirus that occurs in snakes
HerpDoc says to (21:39):
ipythons sorry
HerpDoc says to (21:39):
and not in any oz species of elapids
HerpDoc says to (21:40):
not oz species, not that familiar with o/s species
NoOne says to (21:43):
HerpDoc, would you mind if I asked how long you have been a practising vet working with reptiles for?
HerpDoc says to (21:44):
yeah sure Noone, graduated in 2003, worked in provate practice with reps for 2.5 years, then at melb zoo and now at healesville doing a masters degree my project for which is on reptiles
HerpDoc says to (21:44):
also member of VHS and given lectures on reptile diseases and have written articles for their mag. Also contributed the chapter on python diseases in mike swan's new book
NoOne says to (21:45):
cool, thanks...are you a reptile keeper yourself?
HerpDoc says to (21:45):
as a student saw practice at other zoos as well including currumbin and singapore
HerpDoc says to (21:45):
yep keep reps
HerpDoc says to (21:46):
will be giving a lecture in the us at the association of reptile and amphibian vets conference
HerpDoc says to (21:46):
are my credentials good enough noone?
NoOne says to (21:46):
are you familiar with Tim Hyndman?
HerpDoc says to (21:46):
have chatted to him via email, that's all
tiger says to (21:47):
Your obviously more experienced than I am, Its just a lot of what I've heard tonight flies in the face of nearly everything else form all sources including vets. Its good to get all the perspectives.
HerpDoc says to (21:53):
hope have been of some help
tiger says to (21:54):
thanks mate certainly given us something to think about
peter says to (21:54):
thanks for participating
Shane says to (21:54):
thanks herpdoc
MattE says to (21:56):
anyone else way more confused by it all now?
Isis says to (21:56):
I'm a bit confused now though especially about quarantine
MattE says to (21:57):
i am... everything tonight seemed to go against the grain alot?
tiger says to (21:57):
probably can't take everything you hear as gospel I guess
alex says to (21:5 Cool

:
no cases of opmv ever recorded in elapids.......hmmmmmm

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:51 am Post subject:

Just a reminder that we have our sunday night OPMV chat session tonight at 9pm Smile

Shane

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:03 am Post subject:

Hopefully , i will be able to get on-line this time . cheers jim

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:42 am Post subject:

^^^Get back up there^^^

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject:

Our Sunday night OPMV chat session wasn't as busy as the last 2, i'll post the transcript up some time today for those who are interested.

Shane