|
We received
10900905
page views since Sep 21 2005 |
|
| |
|
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Shane
ARK Webmaster
Gender: 
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 2655
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Status: Online
|
 Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:24 am Post subject:  VCAT Hearing decision - Hoser vs DSE |
 |
|
Well here it is folks, the news a lot of people have been eagerly awaiting, I take my hat of to the DSE for having the intestinal fortitude to take Mr Raymond Hoser to task!
Merry Xmas everybody
Shane Hunter
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2008/2035.html |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Shane
ARK Webmaster
Gender:
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 2655
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Status: Online
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
The VCAT decision is pure gold, take #47 of the online document for example
| Quote:
|
Mr Hoser gave evidence about his demonstrations and how successful and popular they were and their value as an educational tool. He told me on a number of occasions during the hearing that he is “booked solid” until the end of the year. The DVD’s of his show at the shopping mall and to the school students, which were tendered by him and viewed during the hearing, represented his demonstrations in two different settings. Having viewed those DVDs, I would liken them to a “side show”. He demonstrates a range of reptiles. They do “tricks”. The patter is continuous and the show fast moving. There is a focus on the five deadliest snakes in the world. They are progressively arranged around his neck. It is entertainment. As an aside, there are some educational aspects to it. It is clearly not aimed at educating the public; but may be imparting some information in an entertaining way. Before we viewed the DVD from the shopping mall, Mr Hoser said there were 41 safety messages given in the show. When it finished, he told me there were actually 19 such messages. I observed I had seen 6 at best. He agreed with me, in any event, that they were delivered as part of his patter. They did not come across as safety messages in their own right.
|
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2008/2035.html |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark
V.I.P. Member
Joined: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 845
Location: La Perouse
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeez that was a good read. Lets see if he will now comply with his license conditions.People will be watching! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sponsor
|
 |
 |
Shane
ARK Webmaster
Gender:
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 2655
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Status: Online
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote:
|
In his May 2008 statement, he claimed that a veterinary surgeon had certified his snakes were devenomised, had inspected the snakes and approved them. That veterinary surgeon, Robert Zelesco, was called to give evidence by the Department. His evidence was that he has never :
advised Mr Hoser in writing or verbally that his ‘devenomised’ snakes are completely safe.
advised Mr Hoser in writing or verbally that the removed venom gland tissue will not re-generate under any circumstances.
advised Mr Hoser in writing or verbally that there is no risk to Mr Hoser, his assistants or the general public (including children) associated with potential bites from the ‘devenomised’ snakes.
certified, signed off or approved Mr Hoser’s ‘devenomised’ snakes as safe.
|
| Quote:
|
|
Mr Hoser called Mr Federico Rossignoli to give evidence. He is a snake handler who has a business “Fred the Snakeman”. He gives lectures to children of kindergarten age up to tertiary level. He demonstrates at the Melbourne Show. He prepared a statement dated 28 October 2007. His statement addressed not being allowed to handle more than one venomous snake at a time. He uses venomous snakes. He never allows children to hold them. He believes that Mr Hoser holding more than one venomous snake at a time is “infotainment”. He himself does not always handle more than one snake at a time; he believes it is a crowd pleaser and it is silly. He always uses a whiteboard because it supplements what he otherwise does. He was unaware of the new conditions but had been led to believe that he would be prohibited from allowing the public to handle pythons which are non-venomous. On the whole, his evidence did not support Mr Hoser’s contention that it was necessary for educational purposes to handle more than one snake at a time of any taxa.
|
| Quote:
|
|
I interpolate here that Mr Hoser tried to call a Mr Fisher to give evidence, but was unsuccessful in doing so. Mr Fisher was a Worksafe officer who visited “The Glen” shopping centre when Mr Hoser was doing a demonstration in March 2006. He had observed Mr Hoser handling multiple snakes, leaving others on a table where children were seated, approximately 1 metre away. He recommended a limit on the number of snakes being handled at any one time, securing snakes not being handled and moving the mat the children sat on a further 1 metre back. If that were to have been the evidence Mr Fisher gave in this hearing, it is difficult to see how it could have helped Mr Hoser’s case. This is because Mr Hoser is seeking authorisation to approach the public closer than 3 metres when demonstrating venomous species and without ever specifying how close. Mr Fisher at the very least is recommending a distance of 2 metres, and possibly closer to 3 metres.
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WuSchl
Becoming quite a regular
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 97
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lovely! Really great read 
Well done, Ray!
| Quote:
|
Robert Zelesco, was called to give evidence by the Department. His evidence was that he has never :
advised Mr Hoser in writing or verbally that his ‘devenomised’ snakes are completely safe.
|
| Quote:
|
|
Frderico Rossignoli [...]He believes that Mr Hoser holding more than one venomous snake at a time is “infotainment”.
|
I guess Ray now feels sorry for naming Pailsus rossignolii., doesn't he?
Perhaps this experience prevents Ray from naming more snakes and, saves people the snakes named after to feel embarressed 
Cheers,
Wulf |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Insufficient_Funds
Regular Member
Joined: Sep 21, 2005
Posts: 1009
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I liked this part..
| Quote:
|
|
He covered a wide range of matters. Much of it was repetitive and not to the point. I got the impression that he thought the more often he said something, the more he thought it would satisfy me that what he pressed was relevant or would prove the many assertions he made.
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sponsor
|
 |
|
Shane
ARK Webmaster
Gender:
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 2655
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Status: Online
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Great witnesses mr hoser assembled!
I see Paul Woolf still has nis neck on the chopping block, another import in a position of trust who is actually an enemy to Australian herpetology, maybe raymond has something over him? I wonder if Woolf and Bornman are friends....
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mangles
I'm new here, please be nice
Joined: Nov 14, 2006
Posts: 13
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is a copy of a post from raymond on another forum.
The title of this thread is " Better than Jesus Christ"
Dear all, DSE and VCAT have taken the Shane Hunter/ David Williams
(lie) view that all Hoser animals are venomous and dangerous.
Who am I to disagree.
What would I know?
They must be the experts (they have never seen the animals, except at a distance (at best).
Anyway, they say all the snakes are dangerous and must be regulated as such and that I have
simply been lucky to survive the bites, including at least 120 on a single day, including from world's five deadliest species!
Hey Christ only walked on water .....
By the way, same applies for most of my staff who have also been tagged by adders, Taipans, Tigers and the like
and still walk the streets.
ALL THE BEST
Reading through the court transcripts I cannot see any testimonies from Shane Hunter or David Williams, but he is still saying DSE and VCAT are taking your views. No mention of the other Vets and Zoologists that gave evidence against him. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shane
ARK Webmaster
Gender:
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 2655
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Status: Online
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hoser is looking for someone to blame, the hearing had many professionals who gave evidence against hoser, all hoser had were nobodies with no idea or credibility.
I'm stoked he blames me, it makes my day Ray!
I can't wait till he does the wrong thing and is prosecuted (it's only a matter of time)
The next step in the anti hoser venomoid campaign is to have his animals confiscated and to see him loose his display license. Then all of this will finally be over!
Shane Hunter |
Last edited by Shane on Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sponsor
|
|
|
Shane
ARK Webmaster
Gender:
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 2655
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Status: Online
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mangles wrote:
|
|
Anyway, they say all the snakes are dangerous and must be regulated as such and that I have simply been lucky to survive the bites, including at least 120 on a single day,
|
Your side show sends the wrong message to the public Hoser, when will that sink into your thick skull! These animals have suffered the indignity of having their venom glands ripped out by a man who is not qualified and now you continually inflict cruelty by forcing them to bite, you are only concerned about feeding your pathetic ego Mr Hoser! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atraxgirl
Regular Member
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Posts: 170
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
what a turn from our best voted herper..
when numerous people( including some more educated people.).have been bited in the last year or so ray was quick to jump on the wagon rambling that they dont know what they are doing or saying well they cant hold the snake correctly..blah blah blah...
so i dont know what a snake expert would call being bit at least 120 times a day ..thats a huge call ray..
at least they have only been biten ONCE.. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
toxinologist
Regular Member
Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 441
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: Hoser's delusions |
|
|
Hi all,
I see that poor sad Raymond is still off his medication.
For the record. I, David Williams have had absolutely no role whatsoever in the VCAT matter involving Hoser and the Victorian authorities. I have never spoken to anyone in DNRE regarding Hoser, nor have I in any way sought to have this action brought against him
Raymond, you pathetic f**k ... I have more important things to do, and the truth is you did such a brilliant job of dropping yourself in the s**t anyway, that it would never have been necessary for me (or anyone else) to say a word.
All the best,
David Williams |
PNG Snakebite Research Project Australian Venom Research Unit Department of Pharmacology, School of Medicine University of Melbourne Parkville, Vic, 3010. Australia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sponsor
|
|
|
snakehandler
I'm new here, please be nice
Joined: Oct 11, 2008
Posts: 5
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Following David Williams post we decided it was time to also make a comment on this issue. We attempt to stay away from making comments and participating in discussions relating to such issues where ever possible.
Snakehandler has had no dealing with the VCAT hearing or matters within. We instruct all staff to make NO comment on other demonstrators at all. After reading the affidavits and VCAT hearing we are amazed at how closely we are followed by someone who believes we are inferior.
We have had no dealing with the DSE/DPI or any other authority other than within our own licensing concerns, and have NEVER attempted to arrange "raids" by worksafe or any other group. Particularly since we were reviewed by worksafe ourselves after an anonymous complaint. (passing their inspection and allowed to continue working at the event)
Sean McCarthy |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shane
ARK Webmaster
Gender:
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 2655
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Status: Online
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've got broad sholders so I'm happy to take the blame 
and for the record I had nothing to do with VCAT either despite what the hoser says
Shane Hunter |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peter
ARK Admin
Gender:
Joined: Sep 21, 2005
Posts: 1973
Location: Damned GPS
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Looks to me like his own defence is what hung him in the end.
Yeah, take the credit Shane, why not? You put a big effort in and got a good result. |
Peter
______________________________________________________
sans livor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sponsor
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered By: phpBB © 2001 - 2006 phpBB Group
|
|
|
|
|
Forum FAQ
Search
Members
Usergroups
Edit your profile
Login, Check Messages
Log in
![[News Feed]](images/powered/feed_20_news.png "News Feed"){kind=small}
![[Forums Feed]](images/powered/feed_20_forums.png "Forums Feed"){kind=small}
![[Downloads Feed]](images/powered/feed_20_down.png "Downloads Feed"){kind=small}
![[Web Links Feed]](images/powered/feed_20_links.png "Web Links Feed"){kind=small}
![[Validate robots.txt]](images/powered/valid-robots.png "Validate robots.txt"){kind=small}
